#140043  by kaos
 Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:32 pm
I was wondering if any of the bass players here had experimented with the Avid/Digidesign Eleven Rack and tried getting some Phil like sounds with it. If so, what rig settings did you start with and what were your impressions of the results?
 #140122  by zambiland
 Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:17 pm
kaos wrote:I was wondering if any of the bass players here had experimented with the Avid/Digidesign Eleven Rack and tried getting some Phil like sounds with it. If so, what rig settings did you start with and what were your impressions of the results?
I'd be curious to know as well. Also, what effects are available? Has anyone tried using it in a live context with effects on a laptop? I keep thinking about moving to a laptop based rig, but I haven't really found the interface I want to use.
 #140151  by kaos
 Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:34 am
For those who haven't really investigated it, here's an overview:

The basic "idea" Avid seems to have established with the Eleven Rack is that it's essentially a complete equipment "signal chain"; meaning the Eleven Rack, for the most part, takes the place of all the gear you'd typically have after your gutiar/bass output jack. So it's designed to be (include) stomp boxes, amps, speakers, cabinets & mics, effects, etc. the whole bunch of stuff players typically use and cart around. This assortment of equipment is what Avid refers to as a "Rig". The Eleven Rack comes loaded with Avid's interpretations ("emulations") of lots of classic gear, although due to copyright issues they can't/don't directly call anything what it's supposed to be, for example a "Marshall or Ampeg SVT", but you can figure out what it is they're referring to without too much trouble: ie. '59 Tweed Bass, etc.

The Eleven Rack can store a vast assortment of different "Rigs" (208) in its memories (which can be recalled at any time). A "Rig" could be something simple like an input->volume pedal->amp->cabinet->output, or as complex as input->wah->effects box->distortion->modulation effect->delay->volume pedal->amp->cabinet->mic->eq->more effects->reverb->output. It can get pretty detailed if you're into that much in your signal path. Like stomp boxes, elements can be varied or switched on and off via midi foot controller, if you like.

So the thing about this paradigm is, when selecting presets, it's kind of based around thinking of gear... which is great if you know what sound you're going after. Say you really want the sound of an 80 watt 1960's 6L6 amp with twin 12" speakers, ok, so then you dial up '67 Black Panel Duo. From there you can tweak it however you like. Want to add something more, like an overdrive pedal? They've got that in there too, dial up the Green JRC Overdrive. But basically you're somewhat limited by the gear Avid's "emulated" and included, and anything you do will be based off that foundation. I'm not sure if they will offer more variations on these themes in the future or not. The Eleven Rack has been out for quite some time now and I guess most people are sufficiently happy with the current offerings?

From a flexibility point, one thing which is quite cool is the variety of I/O options Eleven Rack has. It has a stereo effects loop (which can be placed at different points in the signal chain), 1/4 TRS line ins, a headphone out, two different amp outputs, Main XLR outs, and of course digital I/O (both S/P Dif and AES/EBU) as well as USB. So you can really do some complicated signal routing if needed. The thing I was interested in was having a preamp with digital out.

Finally, to answer Zambiland's question on effects, here's what's listed as their included effects:
Volume pedal, Black Wah, Shine Wah, Tri-Knob Fuz, BlackOp Distortion, Green JRC Overdrive, White Boost, DC Distortion, Flanger, C1 Chorus/Vibrato, Multi-Chorus, Vibe Phaser, Orange Phaser, Roto Speaker, Black Spring Reverb, ElevenSR stereo reverb, Tape Echo, BBD Dealy, Dyn Delay, Graphic EQ, Para EQ, Grey Comp, Dyn III Compressor.
Keep in mind that these "emulations" are "inspired" by actual physical devices, and the names are somewhat revealing as to the source. So one would assume when they list "Orange Phaser" they're referring to the the 1970s MXR, etc.

Anyway, based on the presets, it seems to be mostly a guitar-centric box, and I think for some things it does sound quite good. I haven't got too deep into it yet, but with some work it could certainly get close to that early to mid 70s Phil sound. Getting the HiFi sound of late 80s/90s Phil might take some effort and be a little more complicated. I'm sure the box has the horsepower to do it, it's just taking the time to find the right preset combination and settings. I certainly wish they would have put a little more effort into offerings for Bass guitar. Specifically a Groove Tubes Studio Pre., P.I.E. Amp and Meyer speaker cabinets would be useful, lol.

I found this list elsewhere online, which details the basis of Avid's emulations:
Amplifiers and FX
Eleven Rack Amps
'59 Tweed Lux - based on a 1959 Fender Deluxe
'59 Tweed Bass - based on a 1959 Fender Bassman
'64 Black Panel Lux Vibrato/'64 Black Panel Lux Normal - based on a 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb, Vibrato channel and Normal channel
'66 AC Hi Boost - based on a 1966 VOX AC30 Top Boost
'67 Black Duo - based on a 1967 Fender Twin Reverb
'69 Plexiglas 100W - based on a 1969 Marshall 1959 100-Watt Super Lead head
'82 Lead 800 100W - based on a 1982 Marshall JCM800 2203 100-Watt head
'85 M-2 Lead - based on a 1985 Mesa/Boogie Mark IIc+, Drive channel
'89 SL-100 Drive/'89 SL-100 Crunch/'89 SL-100 Clean - based on a 1989 Soldano SLO-100 Super Lead Overdrive head, Overdrive channel, Crunch channel, and Clean channel
'92 Treadplate Modern/'92 Treadplate Vintage - based on a 1992 Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier head; Channel 3: Modern High Gain and Channel 2: Vintage High Gain
DC Modern Overdrive - Avid custom amp
DC Vintage Crunch - Avid custom amp

Eleven Rack Expansion Pack Amps
'64 Black Vib - based on the 1964 Fender Vibroverb combo amp
'65 Black Mini - based on the 1965 Fender Champ combo amp
'65 Black SR - based on the 1965 Fender Super Reverb combo amp
'65 J45 - based on the 1965 Marshall JTM45 head
'67 Plexiglas Vari - based on the 1967 Marshall Super Lead "Plexi" head with Variac modification
'68 Plexiglas 50w - based on the 1968 Marshall Super Lead 50w head
'69 Blue Line Bass - based on the 1969 Ampeg SVT head
'93 MS-30 - based on the 1993 Matchless DC-30 combo amp
'97 RB-01b Red, Blue, and Green - based on the Bogner Ecstasy 101B head
DC Bass - Avid custom amp
DC Modern 800 - Avid custom amp
DC Modern Clean - Avid custom amp
DC Modern SOD - Avid custom amp
DC Vintage Clean - Avid custom amp
DC Vintage OD - Avid custom amp

Eleven Rack Effects, Sound Processors and Utilities
BBD Delay - based on the Electro-Harmonix Deluxe Memory Man
Black Op Distortion - based on the Pro Co Rat
Black Wah - based on the Thomas Organ CB-95 Cry Baby
C1 Chorus/Vibrato - based on the Boss CE-1 Chorus Ensemble
Eleven SR (Stereo Reverb) - based on the Avid Reverb One plug-in
EP Tape Echo - based on the Maestro Echoplex EP-3
Flanger - Avid custom flange effect
Graphic EQ - Avid custom 5-band graphic EQ
Green JRC Overdrive - based on the Ibanez TS-808 Tube Screamer
Gray Compressor - based on the Ross Compressor
Orange Phaser - based on the MXR Phase 90
Roto Speaker - Avid custom rotary speaker effect
Shine Wah - based on the VOX V846
Spring Reverb - based on blackface-era Fender Spring Reverb units
Tri Knob Fuzz - based on the Electro-Harmonix Big Muff Pi
Tuner - Avid guitar tuner
Vibe Phaser - based on the Univox Uni-Vibe
Volume Pedal - Avid custom volume pedal

Eleven Rack Expansion Pack Effects and Sound Processors
DC Distortion - Avid custom distortion effect
Dyn Delay - based on the Avid AIR Dynamic Delay plug-in
Dyn III Compressor - based on the Avid Dynamics III Compressor plug-in
Multi-Chorus - based on the Avid AIR Multi-Chorus plug-in
Para EQ - Avid custom parametric EQ
White Boost - based on the Xotic RC Booster
Speakers and Microphones
Eleven Rack Speaker Cabinets
4 x 12 Classic 30 - based on an '06 Marshall 1960AV 4 x 12" with Celestion Vintage 30s
4 x 12 Green 25W - based on a '68 Marshall 1960A with Celestion G12H
4 x 10 Tweed Bass - based on a '59 Fender Bassman 4 x 10" with Jensen P10Qs
2 x 12 AC Blue - based on a '66 VOX AC30 2 x 12" with Celestion Alnico Blues
2 x 12 Black Duo - based on a '67 Fender Black Face Twin Reverb 2 x 12" with Jensen C12Ns
1 x 12 Black Lux - based on a '64 Fender Black Face Deluxe Reverb 1 x 12" with Jensen P12N
1 x 12 Tweed Lux - based on a '59 Fender Tweed Deluxe 1 x 12" with Jensen P12Q

Eleven Rack Expansion Pack Speaker Cabinets
8 x 10 Blue Line - based on an Ampeg SVT 8 x 10 with "towel bar"
4 x 12 Green 20W - based on a Marshall 4 x 12 with Celestion Heritage G12M speakers
4 x 12 65W - based on a Marshall 4 x 12 with original issue Celestion G12-65 speakers
4 x 10 Black SR - based on a Fender Super Reverb 4 x 10 with CTS Alnico speakers
2 x 12 B30 - based on a Bogner 2 x 12 with Celestion Vintage 30 speakers
2 x 12 Silver Cone - based on a Roland JC-120 2x12
1 x 15 Open Back - based on an Ampeg Reverberocket 1 x 15 with Jensen C15N speaker
1 x 8 Custom - based on a Fender Champ combo amp speaker

Eleven Rack Microphones
Dyn 7 - based on a Shure SM7 dynamic
Dyn 57 - based on a Shure SM57 Unidyne III dynamic
Dyn 409 - based on a Sennheiser MD 409 dynamic
Dyn 421 - based on a Sennheiser MD 421 dynamic
Cond 67 - based on a Neumann U67 condenser
Cond 87 - based on a Neumann U87 condenser
Ribbon 121 - based on a Royer 121 ribbon

Eleven Rack Expansion Pack Microphones
Dyn 12 - based on an AKG D112 large diaphragm dynamic
Dyn 20 - based on an Electro-Voice RE20 dynamic cardioid